Saturday, July 09, 2005

Cat, pigeons....

I finally found the link on Julie's blog to one of the forums where she was reportedly getting excoriated, and went along to see what it was all about, and walked in on the tail end of a massive debate. Being me, I couldn't resist joining in, so rather than try to follow up on a zillion points of contention on there I posted a couple of questions and invited people back to this blog for follow-up. This could get interesting. Well, for certain very specific values of interesting that actually equate to extremely boring for most people apart from me.

And, yes, people were excoriating Julie. In fairness, a lot of that was in reaction to a badly-phrased post on her part which did make it sound as though she'd simply left him for an hour with no way to tell how hard he was screaming and whether he'd vomited, shit himself, or even choked. She's since clarified that she could actually hear him through the open window the whole time and hence knew that he was sleeping for the first three-quarters of that hour and grumbling for the rest of it, which is a rather different kettle of fish. But, even once she posted that, people accused her of backpeddling and claimed the fact that she was bothering to explain this proved she must be feeling guilty about her terrible misdeeds. Then there were all the people who compared it to child abuse. And a couple of people who blamed her for even daring to utter negative sentiments about the experience of parenthood (or maybe for daring to feel those sentiments in the first place, who knows). And, when she'd had enough of the discussion & turned off the comments section on her blog, she got criticised for that as well. You get the picture.

To be fair, there were more thoughtful and sensitive posters as well. We shall see how this goes.

At some point, I probably should post about something other than CIO. I do actually have a life, though I wouldn't blame anyone for doubting it at this point. I just get distracted from it by my addiction to debate, which is far more interesting.


At July 08, 2005 10:11 PM, Anonymous mellybean said...

i saw your post on MD and i liked it because it's so thoughtful. i'm sorry i don't have time to research your questions tonight, but i have a collection if CIO pro/con links somewhere and will post it when i can. i just wanted to say, the only part of Julie's blog post i objected to is that she stated that she "should" feel something, but she "didn't". i was wondering if she's suffering from PPD, either undiagnosed or undertreated. because i think every CIO mommy IS affected emotionally by hearing their child's cries, be they howling or quiet.

At July 09, 2005 1:38 AM, Anonymous Wendy said...

Hi...I came over here from MD and thought I'd comment. One thing I noticed, in your previous post, was your defintion of CIO for those who were not familiar with the term. "Basically, if the kid wakes up before nap and/or night-time is over, instead of going to get them you leave them crying until getting-up time, and repeat this as needed until you crack or the child figures out that he's not going to get picked up right then and had better just deal with it and go to sleep." This is a different definition than I, and I imagine most of the folks opposed to this method are familiar with. I think of the CIO method (aka Ferber-style) as a way to get your kid to sleep in the first place (not as just letting your kid fuss for 15 minutes when he wakes up from a nap early to see if he'll sleep a bit longer). The method Julie first stated in her blog that her doctor recommended, that caused the initial uproar, included the "put them in the crib, ignore the cries, go out of ear range, and don't take the moniter" advice as a method of getting kids to get to asleep to begin with. This initial post (before she clarified her position) was what caused the all the hub-bub...and all the comments that supported this method that followed resulted in the debate. It wasn't meant to be an attack on was a debate about this particular method of parenting. Yes...things get a little heated in discussions like this (on both sides) as these thing tend to do. I think your definition and what Julie stated she actually did later, is different from what caused the actual debate. The only comment I would make about the method you describe is...if the child wakes up and actually does start to cry, why not try to comfort him back to sleep, instead of leaving him? If I truly felt that my judgement about him needing more sleep overuled his telling me it was time to get up, I would much rather pick him up, nurse and/or rock him back to sleep, than send the message that he just has to "deal with it" and go back to sleep without being acknowledged. Anyway, I'm glad someone from Julie's camp finally admitted that her post was "badly-phrased". Oh, and I was the one on MD that complained about getting "deleted" for just posting a link to a differing POV (I NEVER bashed Julie). Since you asked for some information on CIO being harmful to kids, then I'll post it're not gonna delete it, are you??? LOL It is not a "research study" but an article by well-known and respected pediatricians (who happen to be our personal pediatricians)'s Dr. Sears and sons (I think someone referred to them as money grubbing assholes on Julie's site, but I beg to differ...) anyway, here it is... (particularly click on the CIO section) It was offering a differing view on things...and it makes sense to me. Anyway...thanks for letting me post...I notice you are in the UK and just wanted to send some positive thoughts and support over that way in light of recent events. Hope you and yours are well!
Respectfully, Wendy

At July 09, 2005 1:54 AM, Anonymous wendy said...

PS....have fun with your blog!!!
And come lurk a little more on MD if you'd like. We are actually a fun bunch over there!


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